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Title: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by Shannon on Mar 20th, 2007, 5:26pm I found this on Yahoo. I thought this would be a good topic for discussion. What do you all think of this? I happen to love Nickelback and I guess I never realized how intense some people hate them. But more importantly I think it shows that fans like what they like and don't really care about critics. Sales can't buy love for some top bands By ERIN CARLSON, Associated Press Writer NEW YORK - Few bands inspire such intense hatred as Nickelback. The post-grunge Canadian quartet has been trashed, bashed and hated on by countless critics, music snobs and other like-minded souls. So have much-maligned acts like Hinder, a rock band from Oklahoma; the Grammy-winning Black Eyed Peas, who have spawned infectious rap hits "My Humps" and "Don't Phunk With My Heart"; and � � � �Britney Spears, who in her heyday ruled radio but was condemned for everything from her voice to not writing her own songs. Yet these acts have sold millions upon millions of albums. So are the critics wrong? Do music buyers have bad taste? Is this karmic payback to all the haters? "There are some bands that, let's face it, are critic-proof," said Nathan Brackett, a senior editor at Rolling Stone. "Just like there are some movies that are critic-proof. Nobody is really reading the reviews for `Norbit,' you know? And nobody's reading Nickelback reviews either." That might be a good thing. Nickelback's "All the Right Reasons," which debuted at No. 1 on the charts in the fall of 2005 and was still number 16 this week, was called "hard-rock ridiculousness" by The New York Times and "unspeakably awful" by Allmusic.com. Even the late Nirvana frontman and grunge icon Kurt Cobain would disapprove, suggested Rolling Stone, which called the disc "so depressing, you're almost glad Kurt's not around to hear it." Young people who "are introduced to these bands on the radio, they don't have a lot of baggage," Brackett said. "A lot of kids don't care if an act, you know, kind of took their guitar sound from some other band." Post-grunge outfits like Nickelback and Hinder continue to be popular � or wreak havoc, whatever your opinion � in part because they appeal to the estrogen set, said Craig Marks, editor in chief of Blender magazine. A "slightly hipper band" will sell more albums to guys than girls, he said. "They're selling a lot of records to very casual music fans who don't buy a lot of CDs," Marks said. "When you're selling 5 million albums like Nickelback or 2 1/2 million like Hinder, and especially when you're making your mark with big ballads that are kind of wedding songs, then you're selling records to both males and females. And that's often how you get from selling 1 1/2 million records to selling 4 or 5 million records." When "teenage girls or tween girls like an artist, that's often a sign that ... the artist isn't cool," said Marks, who also gives Spears as an example. "You know, `My little sister likes them.'" Advertisements, music reviews and fashion trends tell us that "cool" is an edgy rapper, an up-and-coming hipster band or a British chanteuse like Amy Winehouse. Cool is not Nickelback or the Black Eyed Peas. They're not so uncool that they're cool, like Fountains of Wayne. They're just, in a word, uncool. Chris St. Peter, 26, of New York, witnessed this hatred years ago at a concert in Boston, where Nickelback was opening for another band in front of an indie-rock crowd. "They threw batteries at them, which is also terrible but also really funny," St. Peter said. "Nickelback represented everything I think they hated." Though he didn't hurl any batteries, St. Peter gives the band a thumbs-down. "I hope they go the same way as, like, Creed, and they just sort of disappear." But for every hater there's a lover like Jaclyn Hafenstein, 30, from Madison, Wis. "Don't they trash them because their music is considered simple, not unique?" she wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press. "Why is that bad? Whatever it (is) they're doing, it makes me bob my head and sing along! I can't say that for every band, whether I like them or not." Often, bands that are popular in places like Wisconsin get dissed by snobs on the coasts. "There's a real danger with ... writers being in their kind of music-critic clique, you know, in either New York or L.A. or San Francisco, and kind of ignoring these bands just because all the critics they know and all the kind of so-called cool kids are ignoring these bands," Brackett said. He points out that classic acts like Led Zeppelin, the Doors and � � � �Billy Joel were at first ignored by critics. Then again, he said, "there are a lot of times when music critics are right." Acts hoping to collect both money and respect would do well to study an It band like Fall Out Boy, which sells heaps of records to teen girls while delighting the critics, too. They don't take themselves too seriously, unlike, say, the Killers in their latest incarnation or � again � Nickelback. It all comes back to Nickelback, doesn't it? At least they're now big enough to headline their own shows, and that means no batteries will be hurled. Only verbal ones, from outside the venue. "You know, you have to be really popular in order to corral that sort of hatred," Marks said. "It's the best ballplayer on the visiting team who gets booed during the introductions. No one boos the guy off the bench, but you always boo the star of the other team. You know, it is a tribute to their success." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070320/ap_en_ot/music_bands_we_hate |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by rzezniksangel on Mar 20th, 2007, 5:51pm That guy sure does say "like" alot....is he, like, a writer or something? *giggle*. I don't know why critics insist on consistently bashing someone that the public clearly likes. *shakes head* |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by ChickenCookie on Mar 21st, 2007, 8:29am That was a terrific article Shannon, very interesting subject matter! I've often wondered that out loud too - why do some bands inspire little or no respect, while others in the same genre get rave reviews heaped upon them. A good example that we can all relate to is Goo vs. MB20. I rarely hear MB20 ripped apart in the press, yet the play music that is very, very similar to the Goos' music. And we all know firsthand how the Goos have, at times, been soundly criticized (even before the abysmal LLI). A look back at the history of the Goos' might reveal the answer. They more or less flew under the radar until 'Name' was picked up. Boom! 'Instant' success, fame, fortune - at least in the eyes of some critics. But that greater notoriety also brought far greater criticism as well. Even some long-time fans found themselves on the other side of the fence, complaining that the Goos had 'sold-out'. Can the explanation be really as simple as saying that anything that is widely popular is generally trashed by the indie-rock hipsters and music elitists? Once it's popular, it's no longer cool? But why, then, is it so popular? Is popular music automatically bad by definition? I'm sure there are plenty of examples of bands, or songs, that were very famous, if even for a brief time period, that shouldn't have been. I'm not necessarily talking about one-hit wonder novelty songs or acts, either. But come on ... does Britney Spears really possess any talent other than flashing her crotch all around town? Is she famous because she's notorious, or notorious because she's famous? Maybe she can carry a tune, but is that really worthy of the type of media coverage, fandom and critical acclaim she enjoyed in the past? Just about any one of the AI rejects could fill her shoes, musically speaking. But just maybe *some* popular music is popular because it's actually ... good. If a band happens to write a brilliant song that connects with thousands and thousands of people all over the globe, that shouldn't immediately qualify them for the scrap-heap of has-beens and sell-outs. 'Iris' is a good example. This was a fantastic, well-written, lyrically-intense song that made that worldwide connection with soccer moms, high school boys and tween girls alike. That that song resonated with so many people is a tribute to the band that wrote and performed it because, in truth, it's just a damn good song. |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by DWG on Mar 21st, 2007, 10:11am There are so many ways to look at this. It probably can't be explained. It would be like having the perfect explanation as to why some folks like chocolate, but others love vanilla. They just like it, so that's what they would buy. I turned on the radio for my husband as he was doing some renovations in the kitchen the other day. He likes classic rock, so I tuned in to one of the local classic rock stations. Wouldn't you know that of all the songs that got played in the course of a couple hours, the ones he hummed along to were by Nickelback and Creed? He doesn't pay attention to what's popular in music, and he doesn't spend a dime on cds. But for whatever reason he knows those songs. Maybe it's because "that dude from Nickelback sang in a song that was in Spiderman". When I told him about the website link where you can listen to two Nickelback songs simultaneously, and they fit together seamlessly, he thought that was funny, yet believable. But I can bet my last dollar if either of those songs came on the radio, he'd be humming along. (Actually I think it was one of those songs that he was humming in the kitchen.) So I guess there's this kind of everyday popularity that's there too. Not the fanatical type thing, just the fact that these songs are well-known by a wide cross-section of the casual music-listening public. Maybe they actually do go out and buy the occasional cd because they like "that song", or they request it on their local radio station. Put enough of those instances together and a song builds up some sort of popularity. As for why anyone would throw batteries at someone, I got nuthin'. :dunno: |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by Christian on Mar 21st, 2007, 10:23am I don't know Gail, I've read some reviews more or less tearing MB20 apart for their later albums. When they really should be targeting Rob Thomas's solo effort. :P I think Spears got her success mostly because of that first video of hers. Once she got her foot in the door, she just kept going with the "Look at me, I have breasts!" approach to her videos and performances. Had she existed before music videos did, her career would never have gotten off the ground. The woman is all sex appeal(or so I'm told) and very little talent. That certainly is one way to get and maintain popularity. I think a lot of critical acclaim comes out of being in the right place in the right time. Take Nirvana for example. They came around at a time when most popular music was all glam and big ugly hair. Then you have Kurt Cobain unwashed hair flying around in the Smells Like Teen Spirit video and it's something new and fresh. I doubt Nirvana would have been as critically acclaimed had they started after Soundgarden and Alice In Chains had. It's not that you have to be completely original. Everyone is going to have their influences and will emulate them to a certain extent. I don't think you have to do something someone has never done, just do something someone hasn't done in a while. Take American Idiot for example. I found it to be a mostly moronic and simple piece of political commentary, but with so little out on the market it was hailed as something great. Anyway. Just my thoughts on the subject. As a little side note, how the hell does Fall Out Boy end up getting good reviews? I cannot stand them. |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by DWG on Mar 21st, 2007, 10:43am on 03/21/07 at 10:23:20, Christian wrote:
Because some folks like pistachio? |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by Pondering My Fate on Mar 21st, 2007, 11:21am on 03/21/07 at 10:11:25, DWG wrote:
here ya go: http://www.thewebshite.net/nickelback.htm But yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head with the last comment. Bands like this aren't necessarily catering to "true music fans", for the most part -- they're hailing the casual listener that wants a quick fix of something catchy. And in that respect, it works for them. (But I'm far from a fan of Nickelback, so I'm biased. :P) on 03/21/07 at 10:23:20, Christian wrote:
I don't know, but the formula seems to work. Look at Panic! at the Disco, who sound disastrously similar yet seem to have found success because of that. Really it all comes back to catering to the lowest common denominator. I don't know, the music industry right now is just in a really odd place. On the one side you've got these bands that have been going at it for 15 years; that have gotten experience and devloped fanbases and are finally breaking into the mainstream; while on the other hand you've got bands hitting it big because their first single got 600,000 plays on myspace. And they're all caught up in this shuffle that makes it nearly impossible to distinguish one from the other. I'm not saying one band is necessarily more credible than the other, but it does make me wonder what it would've been like if some of these bands actually had the time to grow into their own style instead of being picked up on because they're doing "the cool thing" right now. |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by DWG on Mar 21st, 2007, 11:51am http://www.thewebshite.net/nickelback.htm Thanks. Gahhh... Now I am going to go out for a walk to the store, and how much do you want to bet that I get both of those damn songs stuck in my head simultaneously. Can he not refrain from doing that "lyric repeat" thing when he sings? |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by Pondering My Fate on Mar 21st, 2007, 11:57am Never. You know what they say about being able to memorize something by hearing it three times in a row... this is how you remind me. this is how you remind me. this is how you remind me of what I really am this is how you remind me of what I really am Head on. Apply directly to the forehead. Head on. Apply directly to the forehead. Head on. Apply directly to the forehead. See, now, if I were going to the store with you, thay'd start playing Journey as soon as I walked in, and you'd be able to avoid this whole situation. Sorry. :P |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by the black o on Mar 21st, 2007, 12:42pm Priceless. :D I like Nickelback. :embarrass: |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by nmf016 on Mar 21st, 2007, 1:18pm I will admit I own "The State". But that "Rockstar" song is the worst thing ever written by anyone. |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by Shannon on Mar 21st, 2007, 1:21pm Yeah....Rockstar is my least favorite song on the CD. It appears the curse doesn't affect the OT board. |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by nmf016 on Mar 21st, 2007, 1:27pm It just affects really big threads. Well, really, I think it just affects big threads when there is momentary rapid posting. Stupid QVC. |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by DWG on Mar 21st, 2007, 2:17pm on 03/21/07 at 13:27:46, nmf016 wrote:
Did someone say QVC?? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/crookedrhyme/goo/gooqvcclothes.jpg (mad photoshop skillz by nmf) it is to laugh... |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by nmf016 on Mar 21st, 2007, 2:27pm Geez. People editing my posts and posting my pictures... How can I get work done when I have to see what terrible things you are all doing here?! (I have a negative heat capacity right now. Not good.) |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by DWG on Mar 21st, 2007, 2:55pm on 03/21/07 at 14:27:18, nmf016 wrote:
1) take off that foolish sweater. 2) finish your homework. |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by Shannon on Mar 21st, 2007, 4:04pm on 03/21/07 at 14:27:18, nmf016 wrote:
Logic would indicate that you can't have a negative heat capacity. It makes no sense. Have you fixed it yet? And....for the record I didn't edit any of your words per se but just added the correct curse phrase ;) as mandated by ME! ;D |
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Title: Re: Sales can't buy love for some top bands Post by nmf016 on Mar 21st, 2007, 9:25pm I didn't say you edited my words. You edited my POST. Try to weasel yourself out of that one... :D I'm keeping a close eye on you from here on out. |
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